系统与基础设施itvision.altervista.org
Linux 桌面存在的问题(2018)
Linux Problems on the Desktop (2018)
2019 — 2022,它一次次回到首页
黑点是上首页(≥ 50 分)的那次投稿,空心点是没冲上去的投稿,点越大分数越高。
导读
这是一篇长期维护的桌面 Linux 问题清单:作者按主题罗列显卡/GPU、音频、驱动与固件、GUI 工具包、Wayland、发行版与硬件兼容性等方面的缺陷,认为这些累积起来让 Linux 桌面难以达到主流商业桌面的可靠体验。文章自 2018 年发布后不断被补充,并在 Hacker News 上多次引发“Linux 桌面到底能不能用”的争论。
为什么经久不衰:它把常被开发者视为个案、却被普通用户叠加感受为“不高级”的桌面 Linux 痛点集中成可核对的清单,而围绕它的争论本身就是理解 Linux 桌面二十年取舍的入口。
HN 评论精选
选对硬件后 Linux 桌面已足够好用,企业客服升级案例正面。
我从 1997 年起每天用 Linux 桌面,也承认部分乐趣来自把一切调通、搭出完美桌面。如今正如很多人指出,选对硬件就基本都能用。我们公司正把客服部门老旧的 Win10 台式机升级到 Ubuntu LTS,反馈一致积极:Ubuntu 在现有硬件上更快,而他们几乎只注意到这一点;Chrome 还是 Chrome,客服应用包括 VoIP 都在浏览器里。
fooblat查看英文原文
I have been a daily linux desktop user since 1997 and I will freely admit that part of the enjoyment for me was getting everything working and setting up my perfect desktop environment. These days, as many others have pointed out, choose the right hardware and everything just works. At my company, we are currently in the middle of upgrading aging Windows 10 desktops in the Customer Service department to Ubuntu LTS. So far the feedback is universally positive from the CS agents. Ubuntu runs faster on the existing hardware and that's about all they notice. Chrome is still chrome and that's what they use for all the CS apps, including voip calling.
认同文章,核心是 GPU/音频、回归和代码臃肿/弃维护。
他说得当然对。Linux 社区多年来一直否认这一点。在内核及接近内核层面,长期出问题的是视频/GPU 和音频支持。GPU 难,但音频乱象持续十年没有借口。视频/GPU 支持也难,但现状是同一块主板有五种 NVIDIA 驱动可选、各有不同 bug,这不好。作者指出回归失败是大问题。Linux 的臃肿使其难以维护,谁愿意干这活?大块重要代码已成弃维护状态。
Animats查看英文原文
He's right, of course. The Linux community has been in denial about this for years. At the kernel level and close to it, the areas that consistently give trouble are video/GPU support and audio support. GPUs are hard, but there's no excuse for the mess in audio persisting for a decade. Video/GPU support is tough, but the current situation, where you have a choice of five different NVidia drivers for the same board, all with different bugs, is not good. As the author points out, regression failures are a big problem. The sheer bloat of Linux has made it unmaintainable. And who wants that job? Big chunks of important code are abandonware.
2022 年仍缺视频硬解和硬件/驱动折腾,老问题未解。
这篇文章 100% 准确。人们可能不信,都快 2022 年了,Linux 浏览器播放视频仍没有硬件加速;CPU 疯狂满载去解码 GPU 轻而易举的内容。我 2021 年的笔记本,VLC 却用不上 GPU 解码。Windows 做这事已 15 年。结果是视频渲染慢、CPU/电池消耗高。还有各种折腾:装某个 X11 版本拿最新 OpenGL、把固件放某文件夹、内核有没有 5.10.x 的回移补丁,睡眠唤醒黑屏——和 20 年前一样。
Thaxll查看英文原文
This post is 100% accurate, one thing that people won't beleive is that it's almost 2022 and there is no hardware acceleration when playing video on your browser in Linux, yup CPU is pegging like crazy to play some stuff that is trivial to decode with a GPU. I have a laptop from 2021 and yet somehow VLC is not able to use the GPU for video decoding. Something that windows has been doing for the last 15 years. So you have slow video rendering, high CPU / battery usage. Other crazy stuff: have you tried to install that version of x11 to get the latest opengl, then have you tried to put that firmware in the folder etc etc ... Does your kernel has the backport from version 5.10.x no? well when you get back from sleep have a black screen etc ... same problems as 20 years ago on Linux. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/chromium#Force_GPU_acceleration
反驳文章,认为许多所谓问题是对 Linux 驱动和发行方式误解,真正问题是 GUI API 兼容性。
这份清单奇怪地混入非问题和误解(也有少数真问题)。随手举几例:Linux 除 NVIDIA/AMD GPU 专有驱动外几乎没“驱动”概念,多数驱动已在内核或配套包中,我认为这是特性不是缺陷。用户很难知道硬件是否被当前发行版支持、所需驱动/固件/打印过滤器是否装好。硬件通常要么能用要么不能用;买 Linux 兼容硬件先搜一下,和其他 OS 一样。也缺高层、稳定、真正前后兼容的 GUI API(Win32 24 年二进制兼容),GTK/Qt 都不追求向后兼容,Qt 许可还变过。
rwmj查看英文原文
Weird list of non-problems and not understanding how Linux works (and a few problems). A few points picked at random: There's no concept of drivers in Linux aside from proprietary drivers for NVIDIA/AMD GPUs which are separate packages: almost all drivers are already either in the kernel or various complementary packages (like foomatic/sane/etc). I would say this is a feature rather than a bug. It's impossible for the user to understand whether their hardware is indeed supported by the running Linux distro and whether all the required drivers are indeed installed and working properly (e.g. all the firmware files are available and loaded or necessary printer filters are installed). Your hardware generally either works or doesn't work. If you are looking for Linux-compatible hardware to purchase, you'll need to do a few internet searches first, which is the same as any other OS. No high level, stable, sane (truly forward and backward compatible) and standardized API for developing GUI applications (like core Win32 API - most Windows 95 applications still run fine in Windows 10 - that's 24 years of binary compatibility). Both GTK and Qt (incompatible GTK versions 1, 2, 3, 4 and incompatible Qt versions 4, 5, 6 just for the last decade) don't strive to be backwards compatible. The Qt company also changed the licensing model for their toolkit which makes using the library under Linux problematic to say the least. Complete misunderstanding of how Linux is distributed. The distros keep your software working with newer versions of Gtk or Qt, and deal with licensing. It's not something that end users need to worry about. Also the obsession with "screen tearing"! I just don't get this frequent objection. I watch videos often in X11 which is supposed to be impossible because of this "tearing" thing, but somehow it doesn't bother me at all.
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