HackerURLs

一次又一次被重新发现的经典。

同一个链接,相隔一年以上,一次又一次被人重新发现、再次冲上 Hacker News 首页。能经受住这种时间检验的,大多是值得一读再读的文章。每篇附中文标题,讨论最热的那些再加上中文导读和高赞评论翻译。

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上首页次数最多、而且有中文导读的 30 篇。时间轴上每个黑点是一次上首页,空心点是一次没冲上去的投稿。

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    这些经典是怎么挑出来的

    1. 01

      合并同一个链接

      读取 Hacker News 自 2006 年以来的全部链接投稿,把 http/https、www、跟踪参数等写法不同的同一篇文章合并成一条。

    2. 02

      只留经得起时间的

      同一链接至少两次拿到 50 分以上(约等于上首页),而且两次相隔一年以上;再由 AI 剔除状态页、产品首页和新闻事件。

    3. 03

      写导读、译评论

      上首页次数最多的 2,000 篇配上中文导读、"为什么经久不衰",并精选翻译 HN 高赞评论。导读由 AI 生成,可能有误。

    系统与基础设施blog.benjojo.co.uk

    1500 字节如何成为互联网的 MTU

    How 1500 bytes became the MTU of the internet

    2次上首页
    1年跨度
    534累计得分
    197条评论

    2020 — 2021,它一次次回到首页

    黑点是上首页(≥ 50 分)的那次投稿,空心点是没冲上去的投稿,点越大分数越高。

    导读

    作者从以太网的历史出发,探讨为什么 1500 字节成为了互联网通用的 MTU(最大传输单元)。文章结合早期以太网硬件(如 Xerox Alto 网卡)的设计约束,分析了包大小与开销、缓存成本、时钟同步等因素之间的权衡。

    为什么经久不衰:MTU 1500 是互联网最基础却少有人追问的默认值,这篇文章把一段被时间尘封的工程决策讲清楚,对理解网络底层设计至今仍有价值。

    关键词 以太网MTU网络历史协议设计

    HN 评论精选

    1500 字节的真正原因是权衡包头开销与昂贵的缓冲内存,而非时钟同步。

    作者最初把 1500 归因于时钟同步问题,但评论者指出早期以太网采用自时钟编码,时钟精度从来不是问题;真正原因是包不能无限大,要在开销低于 2%-5% 的前提下尽量小,而当年 SRAM 极其昂贵,更大的包会让交换和缓冲成本过高。作者后来已更正文章。

    mertenVan查看英文原文

    Software developer talking confidently about electrical engineering issues he knows nothing about. How cute. /s All Ethernet adapters since the first Alto card had self-clocking data recovery [1]. Clock accuracy was never a problem, as long as it was withing the acceptable range required for PLL lock/track loop. The reason for 1500 MTU is that for packet-based systems, you don't want infinitely large packets. You want small packets. but large enough so that packet overhead is insignificant, which in engineering terms means less than 2%-5% overhead. Thus 1500 max packet size. Everything above that just makes switching and buffering needlessly expensive, SRAM was hella expensive back then. Still is today (in terms of silicon area). Look at all the memory chips on Xerox Alto's Ethernet board (below) - memory chips were already taking ~50% of the board area! [1] Schematic of the original Alto Ethernet card clock recovery circuit: https://www.righto.com/2017/11/fixing-ethernet-board-from-vintage.html EDIT: Lol! Author has completely replaced erroneous explanation with correct explanation, including link to seminal paper about packet switching. Good.

    碰撞浪费时间和廉价网卡晶振精度不足也是 MTU 偏小的历史原因。

    1500 的选择还与早期共享信道的碰撞有关:CSMA 下两节点同时发送会碰撞并浪费整帧时间,10Mbps 下 1500 字节意味着碰撞要浪费 1.2ms,因此 1500 是经验性选择。此外早期廉价网卡不恢复时钟,晶振偏差超过 0.12% 就会损坏长帧的末尾比特,作者确实遇到过短帧正常、长帧挂死的网卡。

    gugagore查看英文原文

    It would be nice to corroborate this reason with another source, because my understanding is that clock synchronization was not a factor in determining the MTU, which seems really more like a OSI layer 2/3 consideration. I am surprised the PLLs could not maintain the correct clocking signal, since the signal encodings for early ethernet were "self-clocking" [1,2,3] (so even if you transmitted all 0s or all 1s, you'd still see plenty of transitions on the wire). Note that this is different from, for example, the color burst at the beginning of each line in color analog TV transmission [4]. It is also used to "train" a PLL, which is used to demodulate the color signal transmission. After the color burst is over, the PLL has nothing to synchronize to. But the 10base2/5/etc have a carrier throughout the entire transmission. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_physical_layer#Early_implementations [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE2#Signal_encoding [3] http://www.aholme.co.uk/Ethernet/EthernetRx.htm [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorburst

    MTU 未随链路速度增长,迫使 Wi-Fi 用 AMPDU 等复杂机制弥补小包的低效。

    对 802.11 来说最大开销不是包头而是随机的介质获取时间,1500 字节太小,单包发送开销可达 90% 以上。802.11n 之后不得不用 AMPDU 聚合(每次获取介质后连发最多 64KB,配合滑动窗口块确认),引入了大量复杂机制。如果 MTU 随链路速度同步增长,生活会简单得多。

    mhandley查看英文原文

    For 802.11, the biggest overhead is not packet headers but the randomized medium aquisition time so as to minimize collisions. 1500 bytes is way too small here with modern 802.11, so if you only send one packet for each medium aquisition, you end up with something upwards of 90% overhead. The solution 802.11n and later uses here is to use Aggregate MPDUs (AMPDUs). For each medium aquisition, the sender can send multiple packets in a contiguous burst, up to 64 KBytes. This ends up adding a lot of mechanism, including a sliding window block ack, and it impacts queuing disciplines, rate adaptation and pretty much everything else. Life would be so much simpler if the MTU had simply grown over time in proportion to link speeds.

    实践中许多大网站因 PMTUD 不可靠而主动使用小于 1500 的有效 MTU。

    1500 就像刻在石碑上的数字,没人讨论其历史。但值得注意的是,很多大网站故意不发满 1500 字节的包,因为路径 MTU 发现经常失效,干脆把有效 MTU 设为 1450 或 1480 了事。在 SYN 中相应调低 MSS 可能更有效,但统计难做,操作系统也没提供便捷的测试手段。

    toast0查看英文原文

    No comments on history, AFAIK, Packet Length Limit: 1500 was found on a stone tablet. But note that many high profile sites purposefully do not send 1500 byte packets. Path MTU detection has many cases where it doesn't work, so it's simpler to say f*** it and set your effective MTU to 1450 or 1480 and call it a day. Reflecting the MSS in SYN minus 8 (assuming a poorly configured PPPoE link) or 20 (assuming a poorly configured IPIP tunnel) or even 28 (both) is probably more effective, but stats are hard to gather, and AFAIK no OS makes it easy to run a test, you'd need to patch things and divert packets and have a good representative section of users, etc.

    历次讨论

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