系统与基础设施sam.zeloof.xyz
第二个集成电路
Second IC
2021 — 2025,它一次次回到首页
黑点是上首页(≥ 50 分)的那次投稿,空心点是没冲上去的投稿,点越大分数越高。
导读
这是 Sam Zeloof 记录他第二块自制集成电路的页面:在没有专业洁净室、使用自制设备和较普通化学品的条件下制作 IC。评论进一步讨论洁净室改造、化学品纯度与硅烷等高危材料的安全问题,以及这种做法对半导体行业门槛的意义。
为什么经久不衰:它把通常被视为高不可攀的芯片制造拉回到车库/爱好者尺度,并留下可复现的工艺细节与安全教训,因此多年后仍值得读。
HN 评论精选
家庭条件可解决洁净室和化学品问题,但硅烷极危险应避开。
现在我们知道,用不纯的化学品、没有洁净室、靠自制设备也能做出相当好的晶体管。好消息是这三个问题里有两个比较容易解决:借助大量 HEPA 空气净化器,可以把小棚屋或单车库大小的空间改造成万级洁净室;化学品可从科研供应商购买,丙酮、水和酒精也能买到高纯度或自行纯化。追求更高纯度时,也许可把溶剂从丙酮换成 DMSO——它操作安全且不像丙酮那样易挥发。至于硅烷,剧毒且遇空气自燃,我曾在一大储罐附近工作,庆幸没出事故,避开它很明智。
actually_a_dog查看英文原文
> Now we know that it’s possible to make really good transistors with impure chemicals, no cleanroom, and homemade equipment. The good news here is that 2 of those 3 issues are pretty easily solvable. With some work, and a ton of HEPA air purifier machines, you could probably turn an area the size of a small shed or 1 car garage into a class 10000 cleanrom pretty easily. It would be simplest if this area were embedded in a larger area, like a 2 car garage, but, you could probably squeeze it into just a plain old 1 car garage. Chemicals, you can buy online from scientific supply houses. Some, like acetone, you can buy from less specialized sources in high purity. Water and alcohol, you can either buy at high purity pretty easily, or buy lower grade stuff and purify it. Of course, at the point where you're going for higher purity stuff like this, you might want to switch from acetone as a solvent to DMSO. DMSO itself is safe to handle and doesn't evaporate like acetone will. > Silane Yeah, nasty stuff. Toxic as hell, ignites spontaneously when exposed to air. I used to work near a rather large storage tank that contained the stuff. Needless to say, I am glad there never was an accident. :-) Very wise to avoid this stuff. --- https://www.americancleanrooms.com/class-10000-clean-room/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silane
版主整理历年相关讨论,显示该主题反复上首页。
相关旧帖:自制 IC(2018)——链接(2019年10月,40条评论);家庭芯片 Fab——链接(2019年8月,131条评论);一块自制光刻集成电路——链接(2018年4月,116条评论)。
dang查看英文原文
Related threads: Homemade IC (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21239145 - Oct 2019 (40 comments) Home Chip Fab - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20657398 - Aug 2019 (131 comments) A home-made lithographically-fabricated integrated circuit - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16955549 - April 2018 (116 comments)
期待出现降低半导体行业进入壁垒的新模式。
我希望 Sam 能以某种方式把它变成一家创业公司。当今半导体行业的进入壁垒高得离谱,总该有比现状更好的东西。
etaioinshrdlu查看英文原文
I want Sam to turn this into a startup somehow. There has got to be something better than the semiconductor industry we have today, which has ridiculous barriers to entry.
空间和租金成本让普通工程师难以进行这类家庭实验。
让我不安的是,如今普通工程师负担不起购买或租用合适大小的空间来做这种实验。我的梦想是造自己的 IC,但在客厅做很可能把家弄得没法住人。我看过工业区里的出租空间,即便偏远地区也超出我的财力。
intricatedetail查看英文原文
This bothers me that these days average engineer can't afford to buy or rent reasonable sized space to do experiments like this. My dream is to build my own IC but I am sure doing that in my living room would likely turn it into something uninhabitable. I've been looking at renting some space in an industrial zone, but that's out of reach money wise even in a remote area.
历次讨论
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