历史与人物theguardian.com
欢迎来到无人想要的土地：比尔泰维勒（2016）
Welcome to the land that no country wants: Bir Tawil (2016)
2016 — 2022，它一次次回到首页
黑点是上首页（≥ 50 分）的那次投稿，空心点是没冲上去的投稿，点越大分数越高。
导读
这篇《卫报》报道介绍了 Bir Tawil——埃及与苏丹之间一块无任何国家主张主权的沙漠地带。由于两国各自主张的边界不同，双方都想要更有价值的哈拉伊卜三角区，而把这片贫瘠荒地留成了无主之地。文章记录了前往该地的探险者，以及他们插旗'建国'引发的争议。
为什么经久不衰：它是理解边界争端、无主土地和国际承认机制的绝佳案例，多年来反复引发讨论，至今仍是地缘政治爱好者的经典读物。
HN 评论精选
Bir Tawil 是比火星更现实的自维持殖民地试验场
建议那些想殖民火星的人先在 Bir Tawil 试试建一个自给自足的定居点。这不是为了宣称主权（那很愚蠢），而是作为概念验证：测试自维持定居点基础设施的技术和物流规模。这里有标准大气压、可呼吸的空气、磁层辐射防护、可从空气中取水，运输也相对容易，成本远低于真正的火星任务，可能非常有启发。
walrus01查看英文原文
I would suggest to people that want to colonize mars that we try a self-sustaining colony at Bir Tawil first. Of course it would need a sufficient budget, in USD or EUR per year, and cooperation from the adjacent governments for over-land transport of supplies and construction materials. Not for the purpose of trying to claim it as a sovereign state (silly idea), but as a proof of concept on the volume of material/logistics involved and to stress-test the technology for self sustaining colony infrastructure. Note that I am not saying we shouldn't also attempt a mars colony, but rather that running a pilot project/proof of concept at Bir Tawil or some similarly harsh environment would be a minuscule cost compared to the actual thing, and may prove very instructive. It has the advantage of: standard earth atmospheric pressure and air you can breathe can go outside without a spacesuit magnetosphere for radiation protection ability to extract some drinkable water from the air, even if very arid, if you have sufficient amounts of electricity relatively easy to transport dozens of tons of cargo to, likely using something like military-type 6x6 5 ton trucks access to earth based telecommunications systems (geostationary satellites, iridium, inmarsat, etc) photovoltaic systems can be installed that don't need to be hardened for vacuum
Bir Tawil 是归属争议，并非真正无主，第三方宣称主权毫无意义
这片土地要么属于埃及，要么属于苏丹。就像买自行车后发现有问题想退货，卖家不承认，双方都声称对方拥有这辆车——所有权要由法院裁决。因此第三方宣称拥有 Bir Tawil 是无稽之谈，这不同于森林里真正无主的花。
bjourne查看英文原文
The land either belongs to Egypt or to Sudan. Suppose I buy a bike from you. The bike is faulty so I declare the transaction null and void and demand my money back. You refuse to reverse the transaction. Who owns the bike? You claim I own the bike and I claim you own it. Who the owner actually is won't be settled before a court process. Bir Tawil is the same. Thus third parties claiming Bir Tawil is nonsense. It's like a random person claiming the bike is theirs since neither I nor who I bought it from wants it. This is different from stuff that legitimately has no owner, like a flower in a forest. Unless the forest is private property, the flower has no owner until it is picked. As can be imagined, very few things actually has no owner.
标题误导：两国是因想要更有价值的哈拉伊卜三角区才不要 Bir Tawil
标题其实有误导性。不是没人想要 Bir Tawil，而是埃及和苏丹谁主张它就得放弃对哈拉伊卜三角区的主张。Bir Tawil 只是一文不值的沙漠，而哈拉伊卜三角区有肥沃土地和可观的海岸线，没人会选沙漠而放弃它。
sgjohnson查看英文原文
The headline is actually misleading. It's just that neither Egypt nor Sudan can claim it without giving up the claim to Hala'ib Triangle. And Bir Tawil is just a worthless desert, but Hala'ib Triangle is mostly fertile land with a sizeable shoreline, so why would anyone pick the worthless desert over it instead?
插旗无用，领土主张靠法理权利加事实控制
如本文所示，插旗毫无意义。主张土地有两种方式：一是法理权利（如历史继承），需要他国承认才有效；二是事实控制，能实际控制领土就基本是你的。有法理权利而无事实控制没什么用，比如西班牙对直布罗陀的长期期待。
steve19查看英文原文
Planting a flag is meaningless, as this article shows. There are two ways to claim land. The first is to conjure up some de jure rights (some way to justify legal ownership, such as 500 years ago your ancestors owned the land until someone illegally invaded or you inherited the title to the land from your great-great-great-* grandfather). It can be flimsy (or outright forged), but it needs to be recognized by other countries to be effective. Religious significance was once recognized as basis for de jure claims, but it is not anymore. Then you have de facto control. If you can exert physical control of the territory, it's pretty much yours. There are companies you can pay who will do this. Reflex Responses might be one, but there are a number of them out there. Of course having de jure rights without de facto control is pretty useless. It's a long game strategy. Spain one day hopes they will be able to take de facto control of the Gibraltar, but it won't be in the lifetime of anyone alive today.
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