职业与工作方法johndcook.com
为什么程序员的薪酬不与生产力成正比
Why programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity
2009 — 2022,它一次次回到首页
黑点是上首页(≥ 50 分)的那次投稿,空心点是没冲上去的投稿,点越大分数越高。
导读
这篇文章讨论为什么程序员的薪酬往往不随其生产力成比例增长:生产力难以客观量化,薪酬更多受组织预算、岗位定价和个人议价能力影响。评论进一步延伸到独立承包、主动谈薪以及自由、自主等非货币回报。
为什么经久不衰:它点中了软件行业长期存在的价值评估与报酬错配问题,十多年后仍在反复引发共鸣。
HN 评论精选
高产出雇员回报微薄,高能力者应独立接活或创业。
这篇文章的主题,也许是优秀程序员停止做雇员、转而成为独立经营者的头号原因。我自己有两个例子:作为一个人的IT部门,15个月内我把年度预算从230万美元降到60万美元,清掉500个旧工单,并上线4个关键业务应用,结果只得到4%的加薪,我在那次评估时递了辞呈。后来作为承包商,我为一家正在选型ERP的1亿美元公司维护软件,提议用90天在现有系统上补齐他们所需功能,按时完成并拿到22.5万美元。如果你比同行高10倍到100倍,最不该待的地方就是没有股权的雇员岗位。
edw519查看英文原文
The subject of this post may be the number one reason for a good programmer to stop being an employee and to start being an independent business person. 2 of my own examples (I have many more, as many of you do too): As a one man IT department, in 15 months I reduced my annual budget from $2.3 million to $600K, cleared up 500 old tickets, and implemented 4 mission critical applications. My reward? A 4% salary increase. (I gave my notice during that review.) As a contractor, I maintained all the software for a $100 million company that was shopping for an ERP package. They were stunned by the 6 & 7 figure price tags and 2 year project timelines. I proposed a project that would add everything they needed from these ERP packages to their current system in 90 days. I hit the target and got paid $225K. If you're a programmer who is 10x to 100x more productive than your peers, the last place you should be is as an employee without equity. Get out there and find someone who needs what you can do. You'll both be much happier.
薪酬低常因不谈判,公司也少用加薪留人。
真正原因是:他们不主动要求。我共事过一些极有才华、极高产的人,许多人却只拿市场平均工资甚至更低。很多公司其实能注意到并试图留住高产出的人,但很少靠砸钱。最近一些创业公司开场说“我们在找极有才华和高产出的人”,最后却说“报酬?我们查过网上,你这个经验水平的平均薪资是……”
Murkin查看英文原文
The real reason programmers are not paid in proportion to their productivity: They don't demand it. I had the privilege of working with some extremely talented and productive people. Sadly, many of them were making market salary (or less). Contrary to popular belief, many companies are quite capable of noticing and trying to keep productive people. But rarely by throwing money at them. Related anecdote: I have meet a few startups lately that started the conversation with: "We are looking for extremely talented and productive people". And finished with: "Compensation ? Well, we checked online, the average pay for your experience is.."
没有客观指标,按生产力付薪就无从谈起。
我再问一次:程序员生产力有什么客观且可重复的衡量指标?我避免写生产力话题的原因之一,就是不知道如何量化它。但如果有人能告诉我怎么衡量,我相信我能告诉他如何靠它拿到报酬。
raganwald查看英文原文
I'll ask again: What is the objective and repeatable metric of programmer productivity? One of the reasons I avoid writing about productivity is that I have no idea how to quantify it. But if someone can show me how to measure it, I'm confident I can show him how to get paid by it.
顶尖程序员更看重自由、自主和精通等非货币回报。
我明白这篇文章专讲薪水和金钱,但真正顶尖的黑客还参与一种“灰色”报酬市场:通常有更大自由去做想做的事、用想用的技术、按想工作的时间工作,且不必总汇报进度或受很多管理监督。这种“幸福福利”的多少通常与水平相称。最顶尖的工程师往往只拿平均薪资上限,却被放手做想做的事,做出惊人成果并真心快乐,尽管纯货币报酬严重偏低。
mikepk查看英文原文
I understand this post is specifically about salary and money, but in my experience there is a kind of "gray" market of compensation that truly great hackers participate in. This usually (but not always) means that the person has a lot of latitude to work on what they want to, they can work with the technologies they want to work with, can work the hours they want to work, have the luxury to not always have to report on progress or have a lot of management oversight. The degree with which someone like this can participate in these "happiness perks" usually is commensurate with how good they are. There is a great TED talk on intrinsic vs extrinsic rewards in terms of motivation. I think the market "works" in the sense that great hackers aren't actually as interested in making gobs of money (they don't want to get screwed either) but are usually more interested in these other more intangible kinds of incentives (like freedom, autonomy and mastery). The most talented engineer / programmer I've ever known was only paid at the top end of the "average" pay scale in the research lab I worked at. On the other hand, he was left pretty much alone to work on whatever he wanted to work on. He created amazing things and was genuinely happy, even though in pure monetary compensation, he was radically underpaid.
历次讨论
同类还值得读
用十年时间自学编程(1998)
Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years (1998)
Peter Norvig 1998 年的经典文章,回应“21天/24小时学会编程”一类速成书,主张真正精通编程需要约十年持续、有意识的练习。
职业与工作方法上首页 11 次 · 2007–2025norvig.com编辑精选如何成为一名程序员:简短、全面而个人的总结
How to be a Programmer: A Short, Comprehensive, and Personal Summary
一篇广为流传的程序员成长指南,作者以个人经验系统总结了成为优秀程序员所需的各项技能——从调试、测试、沟通到团队协作与身心健康。
职业与工作方法上首页 6 次 · 2008–2015samizdat.mines.edu编辑精选不要自称程序员
Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
经典职业建议文章劝软件工程师不要把自己局限在“程序员”这个标签上,而要从公司业务角度说明自己创造的价值;文中讨论了成本中心与利润中心、头衔、求职与职业选择,也顺带批评了学术界的价…
职业与工作方法上首页 5 次 · 2011–2021kalzumeus.com编辑精选创作者的日程与经理的日程
Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule (2009)
Paul Graham 在这篇文章里把时间表分成两类:管理者的日程以小时为单位,会议可以填满一天;创作者(程序员、写作者等)的日程则以半天为单位,需要长时间不被打断的连续块。
职业与工作方法上首页 5 次 · 2009–2021paulgraham.com编辑精选我们只招最时髦的人
We only hire the trendiest
Dan Luu 在这篇文章中批评科技公司招聘时盲目追逐流行趋势:只招用最新框架、有知名大厂或名校背景的人,而忽视真正有能力的候选人。
职业与工作方法上首页 4 次 · 2016–2021danluu.com