编程与软件工程the.scapegoat.dev
我依然热爱 PHP 和 JavaScript
I still love PHP and JavaScript
2022 — 2025，它一次次回到首页
黑点是上首页（≥ 50 分）的那次投稿，空心点是没冲上去的投稿，点越大分数越高。
导读
作者从个人经历出发，解释自己为什么依然喜欢 PHP 和 JavaScript：它们门槛低、反馈快，能让人迅速把想法做成可用的 Web 产品。文章也回应了围绕这两种语言的常见偏见，讨论“能解决问题、按时交付”与语言洁癖之间的张力。
为什么经久不衰：它触及了编程界反复出现的争论——实用交付与语言纯粹性——并唤起了许多人用 PHP/JS 第一次做出东西的共鸣，所以多年后仍值得一读。
HN 评论精选
PHP 的简单部署、无状态和成熟生态带来被低估的工程优势。
PHP 有很多隐藏优点：设计上无状态（更容易扩展）；在 Serverless 出现之前就很“serverless”；性能出奇地好；没有“未知的未知”，久经考验、少有惊喜；部署简单，把文件放到 Web 服务器即可，不需要中间件；也不需要编译，所以没有漫长编译时间。补充一点：PHP 文档有大量真实例子，用户还能留言分享踩过的坑，我觉得它被严重低估了。
tiffanyh查看英文原文
PHP has so many hidden benefits: - it's stateless by design (much easier to scale) - it was "serverless" before Serverless - surprisingly performant - no "unknown unknowns". it's so tried-and-true, there's no surprises - deployment is so simple, just drop a file on a web server. No middleware needed. - No long compile times because there is no compiling needed. EDIT: why the downvotes? If you don't agree, just reply so we can have a healthy dialogue. EDIT2: I also think there is something unique about PHP documentation. It has plenty of real life examples, and the ability for users to leave comments allows you to hear directly from others "gotchas" that people have experienced. I feel like PHP documentation is very undervalued.
遗留 JS 缺乏测试和静态类型会让团队维护成本很高，严肃产品应慎选。
我不同意“爱遗留代码库”的说法。对我来说遗留 JS 代码碰都不想碰，因为每部分都可能和许多隐藏位置交织；而且我几乎没见过带健壮测试套件的遗留 JS 代码库，重构难以验证。在 10 人以上团队里，我更喜欢 C# 甚至 Go，静态类型在阅读别人代码时帮助很大。如果为公司做严肃产品，请不要选“垃圾语言”，否则你走后可能留给我一堆没处理用户输入的代码要调试。当然，真正有才华的程序员在什么语言里都能高效，但我对快速写成、缺乏文档的代码有太多糟糕经历。
WaffleIronMaker查看英文原文
> I love legacy codebases. > A legacy codebase means that the product is performing well. It means that I can often make immediate and impactful improvements. Wow. This person must have worked on very different legacy codebases than me. Legacy Javascript code, to me, is something that I do not want to touch with a 10 foot pole, because every little piece of it can be intertwined with and used by many other hidden places. Plus, I've never found a legacy JS codebase that has a robust test suite, so any refactoring I do can be hard to test and verify. From a practicality perspective, I get that the best programming language is the one you can use to build your product, but I tend to long for languages like C# or even Go when I'm trying to deliver a product on a team with 10+ people. Static typing really helps when you're interfacing with someone elses code, and Typescript only aids this point. Maybe if your target audience is genuinely 10 year olds learning to code, fine. But also if you're building a serious product for a company, please don't choose a "Janky programming language" because I really don't want to have to debug it after you left before really thinking about sanitizing user input. I feel like, in the hands of a really talented programmer, they can be super productive in PHP or Javascript or really anything. But I've just had a lot of bad experiences with quickly written, undocumented code.
PHP 让年轻时的作者第一次获得“做出完整产品”的赋权感，旧偏见不应掩盖其简单有效。
这说到我心坎里。我小时候叔叔教我 Pascal，但看不懂控制台程序的意义。后来接触 90 年代末的 HTML（Geocities 时代），PHP 是自然下一步；我从图书馆借《PHP and MySQL Web Development》，那种能做出任何应用并在浏览器里看到结果的感觉太有力量了。我做过自己的论坛、eBay 克隆和一些给老韩国 MMO 的 Web 应用。几十年后，后端多用 Go、Node/TS，甚至 Rust+WASM，这让我觉得疯狂；我见过一些 FOSS 项目因为平台/语言选择而过度复杂，明明用 PHP 会很简单。PHP 仍有奇怪的污名，尽管大多数旧担忧已被解决。不过前端确实因 React、webpack、CSS 库等变得好多了，手写 HTML/JS/CSS 一直很痛苦。
kayson查看英文原文
This really speaks to my heart. I learned programming as a young kid when my uncle taught my pascal. But I just couldn't see the point of console programs and never really got into it. Eventually I picked up late 90s HTML (hello geocities!) and php was a natural next step. I still remember going to the library to borrow the book PHP and MySQL web development. It was so empowering. I could make any kind of application I wanted and see the result in my browser, GUI and all (Win32 API was way beyond me at that age). I made my own forums, ebay clone, and a few web apps for an old Korean MMO. Fast forward a few decades, and things look very different. Tons of web app backends being written in go, nodeJS/TS, and I recently learned people write them in rust+webasm. It's just crazy to me. I've worked on FOSS projects that are massively over-complicated because of their platform/language choice, when they would've been very straightforward php choices. But php still has this weird stigma about it despite most of the old concerns having been addressed. I do have to say, though, that front end web development is way better than before with the advent of React and co, webpack, css libraries etc. Doing all that html/js/css by hand was always painful.
实用主义者认为按时交付产品比争论类型系统更重要。
“它们被那些把事做成的人使用。”这句话基本说清了一切。让我在截止日期前把这个破应用建完，你们继续争论哪种静态类型检查系统更好吧。
mouzogu查看英文原文
> They are used by people who get shit done. pretty much says it all. let me finish building this shitty app by deadline, while you guys continue argue about which static type checking system is better.
历次讨论
同类还值得读
开源应用架构
The Architecture of Open Source Applications
《开源软件架构》（AOSA）是一本在线免费书，邀请知名开源项目的作者亲自剖析其内部设计，涵盖 SQLAlchemy、LLVM、Audacity、Apache、Bash 等系统。
编程与软件工程上首页 9 次 · 2011–2024aosabook.org编辑精选编程语言简史：简短、不完整且多半错误
A Brief, Incomplete, and Mostly Wrong History of Programming Languages
一篇以戏谑、故意不准确的方式回顾编程语言史的博客文章，用夸张轶事和讽刺定义串起 Lisp、C、C++、Java、JavaScript、PHP 等语言。
编程与软件工程上首页 8 次 · 2009–2021james-iry.blogspot.comSQLite 是如何测试的
How SQLite is tested
SQLite 官方文档页，系统介绍 SQLite 的测试体系：多种测试方法（TCL 测试、模糊测试、回归测试、静态分析等）和海量测试用例，展示了这个小型开源项目如何靠极致测试获得…
编程与软件工程上首页 8 次 · 2009–2025sqlite.org编辑精选高级编程语言（2009）
Advanced programming languages (2009)
Matt Might 的经典文章，按用途推荐“高级编程语言”：如果追求就业就选主流语言，如果追求表达力、学术研究或创业，则推荐 Haskell、OCaml、Scala 等函数式语…
编程与软件工程上首页 8 次 · 2009–2022matt.might.net我的 Forth 与栈机器经历
Yosefk - My history with Forth & stack machines
作者以亲身经历回顾了使用 Forth 语言和栈式机器的历程：既赞叹其简洁优雅、代码量小、可自举的优点，也坦率指出栈操作在实际编程中的痛苦，以及 Forth 社区文化中的问题。
编程与软件工程上首页 8 次 · 2010–2024yosefk.com编辑精选