编程与软件工程blogsystem5.substack.com
30 年前的 IDE 是什么样
IDEs we had 30 years ago
2023 — 2025，它一次次回到首页
黑点是上首页（≥ 50 分）的那次投稿，空心点是没冲上去的投稿，点越大分数越高。
导读
作者回顾三十年前的集成开发环境——Turbo Pascal、Visual Basic、Delphi、Smalltalk 这类小而快、开箱即用的 IDE，比较它们在启动速度、GUI 构建和即时反馈上的体验，并讨论今天的重型 IDE 与 TUI 编辑器各自得失了什么。评论区则围绕 Eclipse、VS Code 远程开发、Vim/Emacs 是否值得学展开。
为什么经久不衰：它触到一条跨代际的痛点：工具越来越重、反馈越来越慢，而当年那种“一下午做出一个能跑的 GUI 程序”的爽快感至今没有被真正取代。
HN 评论精选
Eclipse 功能全面且资源占用低，却被长期忽视。
人们谈到功能完整但不臃肿的 IDE 时总是忘记 Eclipse。它占用的资源比一个裸装的 VS Code 还少，却能同时跑五倍的工具量。从代码到 Git、CI/CD、远程开发，它从 2013 年起就能全包。我用了 20 年，觉得它是 IDE 世界里被低估的英雄——这篇文章也没把它当作现代 GUI IDE 提一句。
bayindirh查看英文原文
People still forget Eclipse when it comes to a full-blown yet not bloated IDE. That thing consumes less than a bare bones VSCode install while running 5x the tools. It can handle everything from code to git to CI/CD and remote development since 2013. I'm using it for 20 years and I think it's the unsung hero of the IDE world. This article doesn't mention it either as a modern GUI IDE.
VB6 做桌面 GUI 的效率至今无人企及。
在我看来，IDE 技术真正的损失是 VB6 让你做桌面 GUI 的速度。Web 和移动开发（三种我都做过）比 VB6 能做的慢太多了。奇怪的是我们至今没回到那个水平。
novok查看英文原文
IMO the real loss in IDE tech is the speed that visual basic 6 gave you to make desktop guis. Web and mobile development (which I have done all 3) are significantly slower than what you could do with VB6. It's really strange why we haven't gotten back to it.
VS Code 的前后端分离架构让远程开发比 TUI/SSH 更流畅。
我不同意“TUI IDE 在远程机器上比 VS Code 更好”这个说法。上一份工作我大部分时间在远程服务器上干活（因为那边有 GPU），VS Code 比纯 SSH 舒服太多。因为 VS Code 有 Web 血统，它可以把前端跑在本地、后端跑在远端：移动光标、选中文本这类常见操作都在本地完成，不必往返服务器；真正需要远程执行的操作（比如保存文件）是异步的，不打断工作流。哪怕你隔着 VPN、用着糟糕的 WiFi 和 ADSL 线路，一切都更跟手。额外的好处是完整的原生行为和平台快捷键。
miki123211查看英文原文
> there are a few things that VSCode doesn’t give us. > The first is that a TUI IDE is excellent for work on remote machines—even better than VSCode. You can SSH into any machine with ease and launch the IDE. Combine it with tmux and you get “full” multitasking. I definitely disagree with this sentiment. At my last job, I had to do most of my work on a remote server (because it had a GPU), and I found VS Code far more pleasant to use than plain old SSH. People recommended using an editor on the server side or freaking around with Win SCP / Cyberduck, but VS Code was just so much better in so many ways. Because of VS Code's web roots, it can easily run its frontend on your own local computer while running its backend somewhere else. This means that most common actions, like moving the cursor or selecting text, can be done locally, without the need for a round trip to the server. The operations that do have to be executed remotely, like saving a file for example, are properly asynchronous and don't interrupt your workflow. Everything is just far snappier, even if you're working from home, through a VPN, on barely working WiFi and an ADSL line. As a bonus, you get fully native behavior and keyboard shortcuts that you'd expect from your platform. Things like text selection and copying just work, even some of your addons are carried over.
对非日常重度使用者，学习 Vim/Emacs 的投入产出比不划算。
我四十多岁后感到精力和时间都不够，发誓不再花时间去“学”Vim、Emacs 这类酷炫编辑器。现在 Linux 上我用 VSCode，Windows 上用 VS，工作里也用 JetBrains。就这样了。像我这样写 SQL 和 Python 做数据管道的人，用 JetBrains 是显而易见的选择：我们没时间也没精力搞副业项目，去学高级编辑器不划算——1）它们需要大量肌肉记忆才能起步，而我们不是天天用；2）我也不够聪明，做不到像写这条回复一样流畅地写代码，无鼠标的流畅编码对我没用——反正我每隔几分钟就得停下来苦想。
markus_zhang查看英文原文
I found myself lack of energy and time stepping into my 40s and vowed never to waste time “learning” cool editors such as Vim and Emacs. VSCode is now my one stop editor of choice on Linux and VS on Windows. I also use Jetbrain editors for work. I’m done. For people like me, who write SQL and Python for data pipelines, the Jetbrain IDEs are no-brainers. We don’t actually get the time or energy to do a lot of side projects so it doesn’t make sense to learn advanced editors such as Vim and Emacs: 1) These two need a lot of muscle memory just to start using it, but we don’t use it on a daily basis, 2) I’m not smart enough to write code as if I’m writing this reply so fluent coding experience without mouse isn’t useful for me ——- I have to stop and think hard every few minutes anyway.
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