编程与软件工程changelog.complete.org
我教 5 岁和 2 岁的孩子用 startx 和 xmonad，他们很开心
I introduced my 5yo and 2yo to startx and xmonad. They’re delighted.
2012 — 2021，它一次次回到首页
黑点是上首页（≥ 50 分）的那次投稿，空心点是没冲上去的投稿，点越大分数越高。
导读
一篇 2012 年的博客文章：作者把 5 岁和 2 岁的孩子带到电脑前，教他们敲 startx 启动 X、用 xmonad 这个平铺窗口管理器，孩子们玩得很开心。作者由此感慨，几乎全靠键盘、无需鼠标的 xmonad 反而可能是适合小孩的理想界面。原站已下线，评论区有 Wayback Machine 存档链接。
为什么经久不衰：它表面上讲 Linux 和窗口管理器，真正被反复讨论的却是「该不该、以及怎样把技术教给孩子」，这类争论十几年不过时。
HN 评论精选
孩子的快乐来自和父亲共处，而非技术本身。
读文章和评论，我觉得大家有点错位：孩子们高兴，不是因为 Linux 或 xmonad，也不是因为学到了什么有用技能，而是因为能和爸爸一起做一件爸爸看起来很投入的好玩的事。作为父亲，太多时间都花在琐碎无聊的事情上了，把热情提起来对孩子和爸爸都是好事——装 Linux、写博客、采蘑菇、观鸟还是踢球都无所谓。给「陪孩子」点个赞：具体做什么，其实没有做本身重要。
lifeisstillgood查看英文原文
Reading the story, and the comments, there seems to be a disconnect between why the kids were delighted - it is not that they are delighted about Linux or XMonad. Or that they are learning valuable life skills. They are delighted to be spending time with dad. Doing something fun, that dad seems engaged in. As a dad, too much time seems to go on the mundane or the boring. Raising up the enthusiasm level, is a marvellous thing for dads and kids. It does not matter if that is installing Linux, writing blog posts, foraging for mushrooms, bird-watching or football. Plus one for spending quality time with the kids. what we actually do it seems is less important than doing it. Enjoy Edit: clarity
命令行并不高深，对很多任务反而比 GUI 更简单、更可预测。
这没什么好惊讶的，我大概更小的时候就会用命令行了。那不是因为我是什么天才，而是当时用电脑只有这样。流行的一个误解是把命令行当成某种高深的脑外科手术，其实很多任务用命令行反而更简单。我做过几次技术支持，指导人用命令行比用 GUI 容易多了——「在 Edit 里点 Tools，点 advanced 标签，右键齿轮图片，把这个拖到那边」对比「照我说的原样敲进去」。而且命令行更可预测，我见过太多人的电脑界面元素被拖得乱七八糟，自己都找不回东西。
jiggy2011查看英文原文
This isn't especially surprising, I probably learned to use command line when I wasn't much older. That wasn't because I was some genius, just that this was the only way to use a computer at the time. There seems to be a popular misconception that a command line interface represents some kind of advanced brain surgery when in fact for many tasks it's simply easier. I have done tech support jobs a few times in my life and it's a lot easier to guide someone in using a command line than it is a GUI "Click on Edit , click on Tools , Click the "advanced" tab , right click on the picture of a gear, now drag this thing into that place on the left" vs "type this in exactly how I dictate it". Also CLI tends to be more predictable, I've seen so many people's computers where they've accidentally dragged interface elements all over the place and have no idea how to find anything.
触摸屏才是儿童和电脑新手最自然的界面，鼠标是多余的抽象层。
很棒的启发（我有个 3 岁的孩子），但我不同意这一点：作者说对孩子来说完美的 GUI 就是 xmonad。对孩子以及所有不熟悉电脑的人来说，最完美的界面其实是触摸屏。孩子觉得图标太小、容易误拖，是因为鼠标多了一层抽象——你的大脑要从水平运动映射到垂直运动，而且还不是一对一的。
ThomPete查看英文原文
Great and inspiring piece (I have a 3 year old) but I disagree with this: And then it occurred to me: the perfect GUI for a child would be simply xmonad (a tiling window manager that can be controlled almost entirely by keyboard and has no need for mouse movements in most cases. The perfect UI for a child and for all other people unfamiliar with a computer all in all is the touch screen. The reason why the children have problems with the icons being too small and accidental dragging is because the mouse represents an extra layer of abstraction. If you think about it your brain goes horisontal to vertical and not even in a one to one relationship.
质疑让幼儿过早接触电脑，也质疑把 CLI 当作教学入口。
有点跑题，但到底什么时候才适合让孩子接触电脑？两岁是不是太早了？那个年龄有更能激发创造力和抽象思维、需要更多身体活动的方式。不管将来做什么职业，他们余生大概都会挂在显示器前，我一直想尽量推迟。我虽然是重度终端用户、曾经的 emacs 粉丝，但在这个场景里我不理解命令行的吸引力——必须切到 CLI 才能达到开发效率，更像是 UI 的缺陷。有 Logo、Scratch，还有一些不错的 iPad 应用可以教孩子计算机的底层，CLI 只是一种很带偏好的做法，而不是在展示底层结构。
YeBanKo查看英文原文
A bit of a digression, but when is it appropriate to introduce kids to a computer at all. Isn't 2 years old too young? There are ways to entertain creativity and abstract thinking at that age that involve more physical activity. It does seem like they will spend the rest of the time attached to monitors regardless of what profession they choose. I always wanted to delay that as much as possible. Although, I am an avid terminal user and former emacs fanboy, I don't understand the appeal of a command line in this case. It seems, that it is rather a shortcoming of UI that you have to switch to cli to achieve a maximum productivity in development work. There is Logo, there is Scratch, there are some other nice apps for iPads + guided access to teach kids about underlying of computing. CLI seems like a very opinionated way of doing things, rather than exposing underlying structure.
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