思考与写作paulgraham.com编辑精选
保持你的身份认同足够小
Keep Your Identity Small (2009)
2009 — 2021，它一次次回到首页
黑点是上首页（≥ 50 分）的那次投稿，空心点是没冲上去的投稿，点越大分数越高。
导读
这是 Paul Graham 2009 年的一篇短文：人一旦把某个话题当成自己身份的一部分（宗教、政治、编程语言皆然），讨论就会退化成站队和争吵，因为此时争论的不再是事实，而是"我是谁"。他的建议是尽量少把观点、立场、爱好收进自己的身份定义里——身份越小，越能独立思考、越能听得进反证。
为什么经久不衰：它把"网上为什么吵不起来"归因于身份认同而非无知或恶意，这个机制在今天的社交媒体与极化政治里只会更明显，且给出了可操作的自我提醒。
HN 评论精选
质疑文章的核心论断：与身份相关的话题未必不能有效讨论，这套说法还可能被当成拒绝倾听的借口。
我认为这句才是全文的核心："更一般地说，只有当一个话题不牵涉任何参与者的身份时，你才可能就它展开有成果的讨论。"这是真的吗？我真不觉得。我完全可以和一个基督徒认真地聊宗教，和一个"骄傲的黑人"聊美国的种族问题，甚至从一位 Lisp 布道者那里学到点编程的东西……我一开始很喜欢这篇文章，但认真读下来它站不住脚。起初它像是在宣讲不执着；现在我觉得，它只是给了我一个借口：只要我认定你的身份被卷进来了，我就可以不再听你说。
travisjungroth查看英文原文
The sentence that strikes me as the essence of the essay: "More generally, you can have a fruitful discussion about a topic only if it doesn't engage the identities of any of the participants." Is that true? I really don't think it is. I could definitely have a fruitful (as precise as that can be) conversation with a Christian about religion or a "proud Black man" about race in America. Or even learn a thing or two about programming from a lisp evangelist... I liked this essay at first, but when I read it more critically it doesn't hold up. It at first seemed to preach non-attachment. Now I feel like it's just an excuse for me to tune you out whenever I decide your identity has been engaged by the topic.
顺着文章前提推出政治动员的逻辑：关键在制造身份威胁而非论证对错；并观察到人们连琐碎偏好都要身份化。
如果人们确实无法就涉及自身身份的问题展开有成果的辩论（我同意这个前提），那推论就是：想在政治上取胜（或转化别人），诀窍不是让人相信你的观点正确，而是让人相信他们的身份受到威胁、而保住这个身份（不管它具体是什么，模糊也许正是关键）取决于你赢（或加入你的阵营）。你的具体主张尽量留白让他们自己填，反正细节并不重要。我觉得这就是当下政治话语被压缩成的样子，也许它从来就没超出过这个层次。我喜欢作者"保持开放心态就别把东西当成身份"的结论，但很多人的本能恰恰相反：不只是宗教和党派，连最琐碎的事都要当作身份来宣告——"我是喝咖啡的，不是喝茶的""我是爱狗的，不是爱猫的"。人为什么这么热衷于给自己贴身份？
reader_x查看英文原文
If people cannot argue fruitfully about questions that are part of their identity (and I agree with this premise), then it follows that for one to win politically (or convert them), the trick is not to convince people that your views are correct, but rather to convince people that their identity is threatened and that them maintaining their current identity (whatever that identity may be—and perhaps vagueness is key here) depends on you winning (or joining your group). Let them fill in the blanks on your views, wherever possible, as the specifics aren’t that relevant anyway. This is what I perceive our political discourse has been reduced to. Maybe it never has been more than that. I like the author’s conclusion that to keep an open mind, don’t make stuff your “identity.” Yet the instinct of many is just the opposite, so that not religion and party affiliation but even the most trivial things are stated as identity: “I’m a coffee person, not a tea person.” “I’m a dog person, not a cat person,” and other such bizarreness. Why are people seemingly so drawn to identifying themselves as anything at all?
把"身份"重新定义为不加质疑的效忠，认为不必放弃立场，只要对自身动机保持自觉与诚实即可。
我觉得他说的"身份"，实际上指的是不加质疑的效忠，这会让某些议题上纯粹基于是非对错的客观讨论无法进行。换句话说，当你在这件事上有自己的利害，当你参与讨论不是为了弄清真相，而是为了达成某些目的、影响别人、把别人推向对你有利的方向（而且是不自觉地这么做，否则就只是不诚实的操纵者，那不在讨论范围内）。我只是想把这个"身份"说得更准确些。我认为人可以有一个"更大的身份"，同时进行"有成果的"、即求真的、就事论事的讨论；你只需要对此保持自觉和诚实。所以我不认同他隐含的意思——你非得"不是"什么（不是共产主义者、不是基督徒等等）。真正需要的是清醒和诚实。以共产主义者为例，这意味着你为终极目标而行动，而不是无论对错都要让自己的党派胜过别人，把理想置于权术之上。当然，核心理想是更硬的内核，那是你存在的真正核心，很难靠辩论改变。如果这些话太老生常谈，我道歉。
tendicular查看英文原文
I think when he talks about "identity" what he really means is unquestioning allegiances, preventing purely merit-based objective discussions on some issues. IOW when you have an angle in it, when you're in a discussion not to get to the truth of the matter, but to achieve certain goals you have, to influence others, to push them in a direction that is favorable to you (without being conscious of it, otherwise you're just a dishonest manipulator, and this is not about that). Just wanted to be more precise about what this "identity" thing really means. I think though that you can have a "wider identity" and have "fruitful" i.e. truth-seeking merit-based discussions at the same time; you just have to be conscious - and honest - about it. So I'd dispute his implied drive that you mustn't "be" something (Communist, Christian, etc.). What is really called for is being cognizant and honest. Taking being Communist as an example, this would mean that you're playing for the ultimate goal, not for the advancement of your party over others no matter what. Putting ideals over politicking. Of course the core ideals is a much harder core. These core ideals are the true core of your being, there's no easy arguing about changing them. I apologize if this all is trite and cliche.
用反例指出文章的经典例子已过时：JS 论坛和冷门爱好论坛同样会吵到封号，问题不在宗教而在人。
"一般来说，在线论坛上一提到宗教就会沦为人身攻击式的宗教争吵。为什么？为什么宗教会这样，而 JavaScript、烘焙或其他大家在网上聊的话题不会？"Paul 是真没看过 HN 或者任何在线 JS 讨论吗？还是任何论坛？举个实例：我妻子喜欢纺羊毛，她在一个纺线论坛上目睹了一场（比喻意义上的）恶战，吵的是绵羊品种的差异。在一个用户被封号之前，讨论已经演变成极具创意的脏话和"要杀掉你所在地区绵羊"的威胁。
stakkur查看英文原文
"As a rule, any mention of religion on an online forum degenerates into a religious argument. Why? Why does this happen with religion and not with Javascript or baking or other topics people talk about on forums?" Has Paul never actually read HN or any JS discussion online? Or any forum, really? Case study: my wife, who enjoys spinning wool, watched a (metaphorical) knock-down, drag-out argument about sheep variations on a spinning forum. Just before a user was banned, it had devolved into some very creative swearing and threats to kill sheep in another poster's geographic area.
历次讨论
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