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孩子不会用电脑，而这值得你担忧
Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you
2013 — 2025，它一次次回到首页
黑点是上首页（≥ 50 分）的那次投稿，空心点是没冲上去的投稿，点越大分数越高。
导读
这篇博客文章反驳“数字原住民”神话：今天的孩子们看似熟练使用手机和应用，却往往不会使用通用计算机——不会排查故障、管理文件、理解网络或编程，遇到问题只能求助。作者认为这不只是教育问题，也关系到未来社会能否理解和掌控日益数字化的世界。
为什么经久不衰：它把“会用 App/手机”和“懂计算机”清楚区分开；在封闭平台和 AI 工具愈发普及的今天，这种区分比 2013 年更值得警惕。
HN 评论精选
真正的问题是缺乏批判性思维和解决问题的习惯，电脑只是症状；教育应优先教这些。
问题不在于这些人不会用电脑，而在于他们不会思考。他们不懂批判性思维是什么、怎么运作，也不知道如何面对问题、探索解法——不仅对电脑，对汽车、扫地机器人、电视、烤箱乃至人际关系都一样。你提到每年总有一两个孩子已经会编程或装电脑；我就是那样的孩子，我会拼命帮他们。对其他孩子，我会先把电脑放一边，教他们批判性思维，因为那才是真正唯一需要学的技能。
otakucode查看英文原文
The problem isn't that these people can't use computers. It's that they can't THINK. They do not understand what critical thinking is, or how it works. They do not know how to approach problems or explore solutions. They don't know how to do it with their computer... or their car, or their vacuuming robot, or their television, or their oven or their relationships or any thing in their life. They don't understand why the world is the way it is, they don't know how to figure it out, and they generally think that trying is a suckers game. You mention that there are always 1 or 2 kids a year who have already picked up programming or know how to build a computer... I think I would live for them. I was one of those kids, and I would be so excited for them that I would bury them in whatever help they needed. For the other kids, I'd put aside the computers for a bit. I'd teach them critical thinking, because it's really the only skill they need to learn (see the documentary "High School" by Wiseman for an excellent example of how reformulating every single class as being centered around critical thinking led a poor latino high schools students to accomplish the highest percentage of students to attain college degrees in the nation... while preserving their youthful exuberance for learning).
作者居高临下，违背教育者原则；应先自己尝试再提问，并理解用户目标是完成任务而非操作电脑。
我觉得作者对他所帮助的人的评判，远比对方可能对他的评判更苛刻。她也许累了、明显沮丧，但看不出她蔑视作者，尽管作者似乎这样觉得；能确定的是作者很看低她。我怀疑她察觉到了，而这恰恰加剧了作者想批判的负面刻板印象。“你知道代理设置在哪吗？”——如果自己找十秒就能填好，就别问她几乎肯定不知道的事。教育者的第一原则是绝不能让对方感到无能，而这里本可轻易避免。人们不是想“用电脑”，而是想完成某件事；电脑大多数时候只是障碍。
simonsarris查看英文原文
I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did, and I suspect it contributes to the negative stereotypes that the author wanted to rail against by mentioning all this. > ‘Do you know where the proxy settings are?’ I asked, hopefully. > It took me about ten seconds to find and fill in the proxy settings. Well for Christ's sake don't ask her something she almost surely doesn't know if it only took you ten seconds of looking. Look for ten seconds first. The first rule of any educator is to never, under any circumstances, make someone feel inept. And it was so easily avoidable here. ~~~ Of course people can't use computers. They're not trying to use computers. They're trying to get X done. The computer is a device that, most of the time, just gets in the way of doing X. Just the way that cars are a device that get from point A to point B. Few poeple get in a car to drive. They get in a car to locate themselves to point B. In this case, the person can't use a computer because people like the author condescend a bit, fix the problem in ten seconds, and don't set them up to be just a bit wiser for next time. The important part of the story is the part where the author explains that on some networks, you need to set extra settings so the office network can communicate with the outside world network. I hope the author explained what it took him ten seconds to do, so that she might be able to help herself next time. The omission (and disdain) leads me to suspect not, or at least that actually helping her was not an important part of the story.
大学课堂的实例说明“数字原住民”并不可靠，不少学生连网址和文件格式等基本操作都不熟。
作者说“孩子不会用通用计算机，我认识的大多数成年人也不会”是对的，但他推得太远。我在文理学院教书，常花一两天教学生评估来源；问“如何判断网站可信”，每班都有不少学生答“看是不是 .org/.gov/.edu”。本周我给学生一个 bit.ly 链接做在线调查，35人班里有3-4人出问题：有人把网址输进谷歌，有人连我复制好的 http:// 也手打进去。还有学生交 .gdoc/.pages 文件，让他们导出 .docx/.rtf，他们说没有 Word——大学可免费下载 Office，Google Docs/Pages 也能导出。不是大多数，但很容易十有一。所以每次看到“数字原住民”我都翻白眼。
jccalhoun查看英文原文
The author is correct when he writes, "The truth is, kids can't use general purpose computers, and neither can most of the adults I know" but he goes much further than I think is really necessary or even realistic. I teach at a liberal arts college and in most of my classes I devote a day or two to researching and evaluating sources. I ask them "How can to determine if a web site is credible?" and in every class I get a significant number of students say "If it is a .org, .gov, or .edu" Who is telling these kids this? This week I had one class take an online survey and gave them a bit.ly link. I just cut and pasted it from bit.ly into notepad to make the font large enough that they could read it on the screen. In a class of ~35 I had 3-4 that were having problems. They were putting the url into google. At least one was typing in the "http://" that I had just cut and pasted. Of course it was on his phone so he had to find the punctuation. THen ther are the students who submit .gdoc or .pages files and when I tell them to export the files to .docx or .rtf they say they don't have word. First off, you can download MS Office for free from the university. Secondly, you can export from google docs and pages to word files. Of course this is not the majority of students but it is easily 1 in 10. So whenever I see something about "digital natives" I roll my eyes. Until I have a colleague freak out about having to use the online gradebook the university is now making us use instead of a paper one because that person doesn't know how to do it.
应区分“使用”与“维护”；不会维护电脑未必是灾难，社会本来就有专业分工。
我认为这篇文章犯了一个很大的范畴错误。作者不是在谈人们使用电脑——他描述为“不会用电脑”的人显然都在用电脑。他需要另一个词来描述他们不会做的事。我建议说他们不会“维护”电脑。我会用车但不会维护车；我会用表但不会维护表（除非表很大很好拆）。人们不会维护生活中很重要的一部分东西确实令人不安，但社会已经用维护服务应付了许多其他东西。电脑极客常觉得求助者应该自学，可如果我的修车工临走塞给我一本维护手册和家用升降机目录，说“你真该学着自己做”，我会很吃惊。
aeturnum查看英文原文
I think this article is one big categorical error. The author is not talking about people using computers, everyone he describes as not being able to use a computer is obviously using one. He needs another word to describe what they can't do. I would suggest the people in the article cannot "maintain" a computer. I can use a car, but I cannot maintain one. I can use a watch but I can't maintain one (unless it's quite large and easy to disassemble). It's troubling that people can't maintain something that's a big part of their lives, but society has made do with maintenance services for plenty of other things. I think nerds and geeks (let's call them computer mechanics) scoff at groups like geek squad (for reasons I agree with), but they take their cars to car mechanics like everyone else and don't think twice. I think it's common for computer mechanics to suggest that someone who wants help should learn to help themselves, but I know I would be taken aback if my car mechanic finished a visit by handing me a maintenance manual and a catalog for in-home lifts and told me that, really, I should learn to do this myself.
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